Patrick Kennedy and RI Bishop at odds

[0:08] ..." parker we have this kind of escalating situation between congressman Kennedy and bishop Tobin in Rhode Island. With congressman Kennedy now saying that the bishop has banned him from receiving communion anywhere in Rhode Island because of his pro choice stance. The bishop has come out said I didn't ban him I simply asked him to refrain from receiving communion. I didn't go out until"...

[0:46] ..." to escalate. My understanding is that there was a letter sent by bishop Tobin to congressman Kennedy but not recently in which. He encouraged the congressmen to defer from. Attending -- Congressman Kennedy has declined"...

[1:49] ..." Right to maintains his declared independence on this issue from the church. Bishop Tobin would be an eight small minority. Bishops. Who we have tried to. Prohibits. Catholics. Community cents from receiving. Communion in their"...

[3:53] ..." of whether it will include federal funding. For abortion and then secondly. Pope Benedict the ascension to the -- recently and his own determination to. Strength. The church's. Voice and also the internal. Churches discipline. On"...

[4:30] ..." way to to act which use the English language shouldn't. That the bishop does this say has sit cannibal. Power. To literally ordered his priest not to give communion to congressman. Kennedy when they're aware"...

[4:53] ..." Rate with the bishop said he didn't he didn't do that he didn't. Tell his -- not to. You know give -- communion."...

[5:10] ..." what circumstances. He understood this band to have been issued by. The bishop disinfectant. The bishop is saying not a band but requests. -- sell out we have to wait for something from congressman --"...

[5:33] ..." he can in unless he can actually provided a letter from the bishop or. Can't specifically point to a phone call from the bishop poor communication from an intermediary. We could reasonably thought to be represented the bishop senior clerical official in the diocese of Rhode Island. That again the press and those of us watching just have to wait"...

[7:24] ..." I think many Catholics would bridal -- if they heard. Two. The bishop was ordering. A congressman. Not to receive holy communion. Because of his views again this is a church that the as strong"...

[7:55] ..." you think. This even if it was a request by by the bishop but not an outright ban. Do you think it could alienate some Catholics within the church."...

[8:25] ..." that. Non Catholics Americans in general might find themselves troubled about this. Bishop poor. Rabbi -- team more. Pastor. Ordering. She is so. Community anger -- and couldn't not to do something political. Just remember"...

[9:12] ..." back in 1960. America had never elected. A Catholic president of the United States. And there was particularly among evangelical Protestants. A certain distrust. Of Roman Catholics that's that on the willingness of them to vote"...

[10:36] ..." Found themselves sparring. With public officials. It was very interesting to be. Barack Obama went out of his way to future. Congress and -- senator Bob Casey. A pro life Catholic center. As a speaker at"...

[11:35] ..." he is exploring. The landscape from a different starting point -- the bishop who is. Out of his office sexist issue. Open large. To represent the church's official position on this."...

[11:52] ..." know. Congressman Kennedy might be. Trying to in a way make the bishop look bad entrapment in front of his congregation other other Catholics."...

[12:28] ..." more about when and where and under what circumstances he believes the bishop. Communicated this much stronger form of being on the -- of them request. But I am certain that the fact that we're"...

[0:00]" This is Kim Tunnicliffe speaking with professor Richard parker a professor of public policy in a senior fellow at the Kennedy school of government. And professor parker we have this kind of escalating situation between congressman Kennedy and bishop Tobin in Rhode Island. With congressman Kennedy now saying that the bishop has banned him from receiving communion anywhere in Rhode Island because of his pro choice stance. The bishop has come out said I didn't ban him I simply asked him to refrain from receiving communion. I didn't go out until Robert Friesen and pastors around the state not to -- you know give him communion. What do you think of this of this latest. An escalation of of this feud that's been going on between the two."

[0:43]" Well it seems to be a decision this time by congressman Kennedy to escalate. My understanding is that there was a letter sent by bishop Tobin to congressman Kennedy but not recently in which. He encouraged the congressmen to defer from. Attending -- Congressman Kennedy has declined to say win or where she received the letter and but exactly the circumstances were of this band. A couple things one Catholic bishops do to catalogue have the right to order clergy of their diocese not of the entire national church were. Of the -- worldwide. Not to provide communion to certain Connecticut for the church. What seemed to be going on is that we're in the midst of -- health care battle which includes the so called Stupak amendment which would deny federal funding four abortions. In this new health care of bill. And congressman. Kennedy I think is as political. Figure exercising his. Right to maintains his declared independence on this issue from the church. Bishop Tobin would be an eight small minority. Bishops. Who we have tried to. Prohibits. Catholics. Community cents from receiving. Communion in their diocese there was an occasion I -- was in Denver and one other. The two other diocese. Around centered -- Reached for the presidency and 2004. My sense here is that what you got is an ongoing skirmish between two powerful figures in the state of Rhode Island over a matter of great concern to Americans. And especially one which the church Catholic Church. Or very strong official views. The the problem is for the church that. It's a means to enforce its views on its own communal tension is. Is so difficult. And few with this denial of actions to communion. Being an extreme form the fact is that Catholics went holding general. Wolf say that by about 5545. That this generally support the idea of legal abortion. We know that there's a difference between. Catholics and Catholic voters that his voters who are the subset who are actually likely to vote. -- Catholics in general and that. They. Who work. Catholic voters are even more likely to believe that abortion should be legal. I think that word in the middle of the period where. This back in court over abortion which has been 3040 year long battle. Is in another one of its stages. And a cause for this is twofold one is legislation that is this health bill moving. Through congress right now on the question of whether it will include federal funding. For abortion and then secondly. Pope Benedict the ascension to the -- recently and his own determination to. Strength. The church's. Voice and also the internal. Churches discipline. On matters of what they consider. Key moral policy issues."

[4:29]" Moon not the way to to act which use the English language shouldn't. That the bishop does this say has sit cannibal. Power. To literally ordered his priest not to give communion to congressman. Kennedy when they're aware that it is congressman Kennedy got derailed there would certainly be instances in which a priest. In the diocese might not recognize the congressman -- congressman -- come to the real during the service."

[4:53]" Rate with the bishop said he didn't he didn't do that he didn't. Tell his -- not to. You know give -- communion."

[5:01]" I think the story in the sense of getting the facts right now really depend on congressman Kennedy. Specifying. Where and under what circumstances. He understood this band to have been issued by. The bishop disinfectant. The bishop is saying not a band but requests. -- sell out we have to wait for something from congressman --"

[5:32]" I think it is unless he can in unless he can actually provided a letter from the bishop or. Can't specifically point to a phone call from the bishop poor communication from an intermediary. We could reasonably thought to be represented the bishop senior clerical official in the diocese of Rhode Island. That again the press and those of us watching just have to wait for further clarification. To see whether in fact perhaps. There was some confusion congressman convinced. Mind when he said this I believe. -- this was part of the oral statement not written. One by the congress and perhaps he misspoke slightly I -- I just don't know if there's ambiguity here right now and that difference that ought to be explored and answered."

[6:28]" Don't want a corner of the congressman by a sort of making a visit to Africa Europe. A -- think but we are in the middle. Very very difficult legislative process. Around this attempt to create universal health care. And it's quite clear that the president in the bill's supporters and congressman Kennedy given this father's role and the history of health care legislation states would be especially I think -- for personal as well as other reasons to want to see a bill passed. Is very concerned about where that bill stance it's out of -- house's. And at the moment that they and their if it passes the Senate it will go back in the house senate conference. And I think that the congressman is a -- of that. It might just say this politely but clearly. I I think many Catholics would bridal -- if they heard. Two. The bishop was ordering. A congressman. Not to receive holy communion. Because of his views again this is a church that the as strong official. Ideas about what Catholics should to believe and practice. And it has a Catholic. Population. Which simply is not in height aligned with its own leadership."

[7:53]" I was asking about that do you think. This even if it was a request by by the bishop but not an outright ban. Do you think it could alienate some Catholics within the church."

[8:06]" I think it couldn't and of course there is the larger American population traffic make up approximately one quarter of the US population. They are one half for a little bit more in the state of Rhode Island Brooklyn -- as the largest. Percentage of Roman Catholics. Any state in the union. And I think that. Non Catholics Americans in general might find themselves troubled about this. Bishop poor. Rabbi -- team more. Pastor. Ordering. She is so. Community anger -- and couldn't not to do something political. Just remember is that congressman Kennedy's uncle. President John Kennedy. In 1960 quite famously spoke. About. His duties as president -- his duties as Catholics and his determination. As a Catholic. Not to allow his public duties to be determined. By the church. And the point of what's of course the back in 1960. America had never elected. A Catholic president of the United States. And there was particularly among evangelical Protestants. A certain distrust. Of Roman Catholics that's that on the willingness of them to vote for. The Catholic candidate even when they otherwise agreed with. The candidate. Many if not almost all other issues."

[9:56]" Well there have been many instances in the past where there have been back and forced. Not -- bishops level but certainly other problem the very famous. Roman Catholic radio priest. The 1930s. The found himself at first. Vehement supporter. Franklin Roosevelt. But by Roosevelt's second term vehement opponent. Of Roosevelt and there was quite a bit of back and forth in the 1930s. Over this. There have been powerful figures such as cardinal Spellman of New York who in the 1960s and 1970s. Found themselves sparring. With public officials. It was very interesting to be. Barack Obama went out of his way to future. Congress and -- senator Bob Casey. A pro life Catholic center. As a speaker at the Democratic Convention. To signal in his own way -- black Protestant. His determination to listen to voices within the Democratic Party. On this issue. Belt once again and I mean it is important -- remember that there are. Views. Are framed religiously and there are views that are frame politically. And Patrick Kennedy is both -- faithful Catholics but he is also an elected public official. And knowing that Catholic voters in. Rhode Island as well as the nation are divided on this I think that he is exploring. The landscape from a different starting point -- the bishop who is. Out of his office sexist issue. Open large. To represent the church's official position on this."

[11:49]" Right that it sounds like you're saying that you know. Congressman Kennedy might be. Trying to in a way make the bishop look bad entrapment in front of his congregation other other Catholics."

[12:04]" And I again I don't wanna say. What congressman's inner intention is I don't know what it is allow for the possibility that he might have misspoken in characterizing. The strength of the bishops. Construction or. Informational contact with the congressman and we just don't know until we actually hear from congressman Kennedy. A little bit more about when and where and under what circumstances he believes the bishop. Communicated this much stronger form of being on the -- of them request. But I am certain that the fact that we're against the theory moment of haven't reached crucial decisions. That the congressional level about this enormous health care reform of which. One vital moving part is the issue of abortion forty Z interest group and where literally every vote counts."