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[3:09] ..." After the marine bombing withdrew troops. For the first time in the Middle East we've been defeated. And for the next eighteen years Israel went to war against the same group. The call that the Islamic"...
[3:51] ..." in their history. Any idiot could change that his decisions should the Middle East and it will change the history in this was a ram but. But more that -- I write about is that Iran"...
[6:48] ..." barrels of oil -- taken off world markets instantaneously. If they hit Saudi Arabia's and I say this in retaliation to an American or an Israeli attack not they're not going to do. Preemptive attack. But"...
[12:21] ..." of Iran. Is not going anywhere and it's tentacles extend throughout the Middle East including Palestinian territories -- minutes that's pretty obvious Hezbollah and so -- they're they're supported financially and and militarily by Iran correct."...
[14:16] ..." weapon but again. You know I spent my entire life in the Middle East might dull life at least you have to look at it from the point of view. We're not talking about morality right and there are licking and it is what did Saddam miss in 2003 a nuclear bomb. In if we put Iran in the axis of evil we've got an army in Afghanistan and in Iraq on their borders."...
[16:43] ..." fly overs and -- inspectors and so forth and kept us this Saddam Hussein and cat and mouse game going that's a city invasion didn't occur where will we be it five years later in your"...
[19:02] ..." it's not as bad as it's announced they don't want to invade Saudi Arabia but they want writes for the Shia and the Sheehan make up 90% of the rim of the gulf they want. Security"...
[20:51] ..." any presents that's worth. Being it is worth talking about in the Middle East today we had to rebuild whatever we had built up. Because of the war have we lost so many assets I mean"...
[21:33] ..." one's fault. That line for the CIA and intelligence third Clinton Syria Saudi Arabia you being there -- for many years and having contacts and so forth. But and it dries up one. When there is"...
[22:13] ..." above the trilogy you wrote a book about Saudi Arabia both oil and about the issues that we have to be aware of and it's driving me nuts. Once the price -- gas seems to drop enough people. Don't get excited about it and our politicians center. Add push it aside because it's not headline stuff but there's no question that we've got a real problem -- reliance on oil. A relationship with Saudi Arabia and all the we're worried were addicted to cheap oil and his long societies are pumping you know with the you know public auto -- always look the other way but isn't Saudi Arabia the land of these madrassas where they're pumping. -- really crazy information to -- let me."...
[22:51] ..." his very sure basic fact is this fifteen saudis were recruited inside Saudi Arabia Intel is staying the saudis refused to tell us who recruited them. It sent to the United States an analyst at -- I'm a member of that plane that took off from Logan Airport right after it went right back to Saudi Arabia. It's -- looking forward the book is very provocative line I read comic of thinking well here's a guy has been there"...
[0:00]" Joining me now here in the Jordan -- show is celebrated author Robert -- in New York Times best selling author of us several books including see no evil you saw the film Syria on which was -- was hit movie of course won the Academy Award for George Clooney and the gentleman you're about to -- was was a big part of that film in -- George Clooney played him in the movie my guest here is Robert -- bothers former CIA and looking -- the Middle -- with -- on on detail and that's why we're having -- here today great to see above the -- be here you have been at this a long time and perhaps we can start -- that time is a very good indicator of where we are in the Middle -- we -- not just back to -- 9/11 or -- back to 1979 but all the way back to -- to the early days to 53 and all the other issues because Iran -- the subject of the devil we know dealing -- nor -- It's a bigger story than just the last five years of -- and Judd is."
[0:52]" look for me it's a much bigger story because it's it's a personal journey I was in Beirut during the eighties has served there. And there was one incident to particularly. You know -- in it and the bottom of all real knowledge as a certain pain. Certainly you know you you Condoleezza Tiffany's and from me toys. In April 1983 when. Kinda GMC truck drove down the coronation Beirut it's actually beautiful place to great party town right. A Beirut at that time -- had just been invaded by the Israelis Israelis withdrawn we had troops there armed. This is going to be sort of a resurrection. Of Lebanon. Like Iraq listen to Paris for Italy's comparison release is going to come back beautiful beautiful women beautiful city. Delightful people. And about 1130 this truck comes. On the corniche. Heavy on springs. Com drives left cry in front of our embassy up to steps explode it's. Building our embassy pancakes. On the marine standing at to post one. He disappeared they never found because -- heated explosion. And we have never seen a suicide bomber before we knew dubbed them the Iraqi embassy diploma. -- year before your nap before 1981 actually the Israelis have been blown up but for us. It was that cliche. The alarm clock. People inherit from. But for us in the CIA what was amazing was the brilliance of this operation and I -- brilliance that did the carrying out. The -- suicide bomber the fact that the truck. Exploded. In the lobby they knew that they were doing and the fact it was completely. Became. Mystery for a who was behind prolong -- But we soon learn that these operations. -- being conducted by the Iranians. And in very -- in a way that was so professional we were stunned. Ended the consequences were enormous because we were forced out Lebanon and Reagan. After the marine bombing withdrew troops. For the first time in the Middle East we've been defeated. And for the next eighteen years Israel went to war against the same group. The call that the Islamic resistance. But it was truly -- a ram in it was a ran. It was crossing a divide between persians and Arabs as you know persians are into European people and that an arts are semites. It was as a wall with thought would be never cross and they did cross -- but more than that they beat the Israelis. It's a war little noticed in this country. It was remote. And operates. It's really it's were forced to draw under. -- under bombs and the first time in their history. Any idiot could change that his decisions should the Middle East and it will change the history in this was a ram but. But more that -- I write about is that Iran went from this arc as terrorist state. I know it you know with the political biases that station -- coloring at a terrorists but it was a 79 it was an 82. It was Clinton's 1996. Who was more astounding. Was how the violence stopped in 1996. It was the arranged turned it off suddenly they were a regional power they were too important. Too powerful the revolution has matured. And in a way that's scarier. Because they've found himself and."
[4:32]" One of the premises. In the devil we know. He is how we deal with Iran and we we're looking at them as a terrorist state today. And as you point out they are involved in in and in his quest for nationalism and dominance in a region and they are very patient their patience level. Is is a lot different than ours in terms of getting things done in -- way they maneuvers through the area and our our war was. Well known by asking a -- here but I war with Iraq has sort of served. We serve them up a softball here there opportunity to metal and get involved in my right is that the soft."
[5:10]" All we gave Iraq to meet you look at the last couple days demonstrations against the status of forces is basing agreement in Iraq. You've had demonstrations. You've had parliament you what do you rainy -- doing are orchestrating. Our departure from Iraq. In it did not become an occupier Iraq. They're going to simply lecture at the Shia remain preeminent. Continue to control its government we put into place and there are going to help them in a very intelligent white just as they didn't Lebanon. What does this mean if we leave in 2011. Let's say peacefully. Etsy with the complicity of Iranians is no violence. They're going to own the Levant and that includes Iraq Syria and Lebanon on. The Lausanne is the roof of the gulf and the -- is where. Up to 63%. Of the world's oil reserves are in I use that term super power and I thought about the same distance from the title the book because. If they can control the world's oil resources there -- very least an economic superpower."
[6:14]" Right mention at one point that story if you wasn't last year when -- a couple of patrol boats Iranian patrol boats skirted by some US ships and it didn't make a lot of news here but it was a very interest in little. Little tester on the net. What is that the Hormuz the the strait of Hormuz are the most important waterway -- as if they decide they wanna. Touch you plug then up and that's where all the the shipping comes."
[6:41]" the mixing the couple tankers yup with their surface to surface missiles surface to sea missiles. Seventeen million barrels of oil -- taken off world markets instantaneously. If they hit Saudi Arabia's and I say this in retaliation to an American or an Israeli attack not they're not going to do. Preemptive attack. But let's say they hit archaic it takes six million barrels off. We're talking about if you talk to the hedge funds that are particularly reliable he -- but they are looking at it. Ten to twelve dollars per gallon gasoline in this country in and a full fledged war. Fine in a weakness that we can we move into Tehran and weaken Bonn Tehran we can -- that it's not going to help us were still a depression. We're still having. Problem I -- we're still facing catastrophe."
[7:29]" In in the book we're discussing -- we know dealing with the new or any superpower you start out. -- way -- telling us those of us who only know it from the news accounts and and really don't have an inside look. What life is like in in Iran today and -- there -- so many strange sites do you see the women in there -- but you also see news other women you know living a dream cosmopolitan life as you say there's television there's western influence and yet there's the ruling religious --"
[8:01]" Iranian film it's very sophisticated -- not pornography but it's very sophisticated it's a very sophisticated culture. And when I went to Tehran. Couple years ago -- idea was CIA guy very -- going to Tehran. You just mostly at a Christmas Truman do he will -- the -- it would be it Tehran for it's curious but any case. I went to Tehran I was hosted by Al Medina shots office he was mayor of the time. There's parties all night. You know you go to south Tehran you can smell opium in the -- the Iranians after the ties have more. You know -- transsexuals can operations which subsidized by the government. In the Iranians are making huge advances in nano technology. They're making huge advances in converting weapons. More sophisticated -- in the Chinese and Russians. It is -- it is country with one foot in maternity. And when you go to Iran they don't care about is the only care about us economy -- we talk about. Jobs. Price gasoline. Price fruit and."
[9:09]" Somalis are relevant to and as you bring up and we know that -- do that. Pounding the message has been we want to see the people rise up and throw out this crowd in in Iraq. But. And you just mentioned the economy which could be better in Iran as a could be everywhere else. Ultimately it is that what will will change Iran from the top down the fact that the people don't have gasoline and jobs or is it is there real is there real old sort of coming together of forces those opposed to the religious order in those who are very much in favor of what what's ultimately. The argument there if anything --"
[9:47]" I think that to do what the face of Iran in the mall as they ran we remember. I mean that the embassy takeover is is dead and gone revolutionized pentagon. Our committee Nash Todd is neither cleric nor his -- the executive power in Iran and that's confusing -- average American who doesn't study Iran. Here he can't pull the trigger he can't take a -- war. And Khamenei the."
[10:12]" Supreme leader who has the most power is in fact military leader his. These powers in the military and intelligence services. The police forces. So we're primarily talk about -- controlling the country in the -- is that I talk to very liberal. And they are opposed doc and he -- out -- and there is a leader on paper who says things are accused Israel should be wiped off. The may happen all these other outrageous things that we deserve and and you saying that it if you really go. Behind the scenes take a look at who's really pulling the strings he's a mouthpiece but -- mouthpiece for -- mouthpiece for her extremist in the revolutionary guard corps and a couple clerics. The old hard liners in the ministry of intelligence security. Eight hits and their small minority it it's sort like as if the Russians had gone into the Cold War looking at McCarthy. This real power in the states who have been terrified. We'd probably ended up in a war but. In this case it's it's other people to small Politburo a military dictatorship if you want to controls the country talking with -- Robert Baer."
[11:15]" Spelled BA ER bestselling author of several books including the new in the devil we know dealing with a new Iranian superpower I read the book this weekend pest and there -- a lot of interesting questions that I wanted to bring -- needless to say how we deal with -- going forward and it's -- part of his presidential campaign -- debatable whether -- negotiate without any preconditions is one -- open -- a dialogue with these people actually we have should've been doing some of that."
[11:42]" And his successful dialogue -- I'm man that you look at Iraq this last week and the Shia are protesting but they're not killing Americans. Com we've had the ambassador they're saying it was thanks to the Iranians -- spin subsiding of violence. -- because they they were controlling a lot of don't want civil war either you know we had the same entrance. They want to pump oil and I don't want civil war Iraq. So why not talk to meant at least at that varied. As the Bush Administration has we consider this administration these the the bush mr. -- last. One talking to the Iranians but they've been forced to deal with facts in the fact as you."
[12:18]" are that this nation of Iran. Is not going anywhere and it's tentacles extend throughout the Middle East including Palestinian territories -- minutes that's pretty obvious Hezbollah and so -- they're they're supported financially and and militarily by Iran correct. Look look at the switch from the -- point of view even be up by Israel. Raleigh -- the Arabs have never want to war. The United States when in Iraq in 1991. And flatten the most powerful army it's one humiliation. After another look at from the diplomats have a right or wrong here were so -- humiliation. And then along comes Hassan Nasrallah the head of his -- He -- he Israelis and everybody in the least knows Hassan Nasrallah is paid for -- Iran Iranians admit it's as Hassan Nasrallah that's. In 2006. His ball re."
[13:11]" Southern suburbs of Beirut actually bombed by Israel. Without any corruption and they did it within six months mean look we can't build New Orleans. And how many years is a -- in the -- that Iranians rebuilt Beirut to six months. The lesson has not been lost on these people and it's ran. Now Iran is perfectly capable of messing this up but in total today they're not in the -- Even on many nice shot is popular in the fact that he takes on the United States not he's trusted. Right right let's."
[13:42]" Then turned to the the end questioned the nuclear question and that is so troubling because. Whenever I hear our government -- or anybody say we will not stand for nuclear weapons in Iran. I scratch my head in wonder okay what does that mean I mean how can we say we don't stand for it. And and yet they're going ahead and doing what they're doing and how are we able to work to simply say no you can't do that we haven't negotiations haven't worked the way they've gone you have some suggestions in your book just a -- might want to look at."
[14:14]" I think we could trade with the Iranians -- nuclear weapon but again. You know I spent my entire life in the Middle East might dull life at least you have to look at it from the point of view. We're not talking about morality right and there are licking and it is what did Saddam miss in 2003 a nuclear bomb. In if we put Iran in the axis of evil we've got an army in Afghanistan and in Iraq on their borders. No wonder they're wanting to build nuclear -- amid a paranoid for a reason is that paranoid does mean they're wrong and the paranoia can often lead though to Lola too difficult -- faculty and can -- to scary -- in this country -- National Security -- phone calls because -- paranoid -- another -- when you -- this -- They're going to go to extreme measures for deterrents which would be nuclear --"
[15:03]" The Iranian guard as you described them. Let's talk militarily here and and their strategy I think at one point you refer to the Vietcong model this is a way to beat a modern army and and is nothing new here when we should learn that Vietnam for all the suicide bomber campaign. And funneling weapons to people and in the -- in -- uniforms a minute it's not just something they just did one day this is a well thought out."
[15:26]" Strategy for. You know they they they look additional poked its day obviously grabbed hold of its Conrad rants on a crash Clinton and the talks about mobbing how crows can. -- attacker cap and and drive from the field the panel urges drive it away. In what the Iranians have learned to do is use small weapons. -- it's small weapons and attack trolls it's -- trolls American patrols and -- you can. You can hit them from all angles. Same way with the carrier group you would lose about a quarter our ships we went to Warrick NC small boats of the suicide bomber isn't. Coming from multiple directions. -- winner ran. Shelled Israel late -- he blanked out -- you know Israel's. Or to test -- couldn't include pinpoint where the bombs were coming from right they can -- McCain yeah. Which defeated the surveillance air surveillance the the all hours of the day there's nothing the Israelis can do to stop and mean. There were as many rockets hitting Israel the last day of the wars -- work on the first written."
[16:32]" Have you done any thinking about. The what ifs let's say 2003 we have not. Done what we've done we simply remained vigilant with our fly overs and -- inspectors and so forth and kept us this Saddam Hussein and cat and mouse game going that's a city invasion didn't occur where will we be it five years later in your estimation."
[16:55]" I think if we'd taken our resources put him in Afghanistan. Captured bin Laden pulled out quickly one is we have to take in the window of the sale. Sales of the Iranians. We wouldn't have turned Iraq I mean requisite with the greatest folly this countries are committed invading -- pop up for the war. -- I still think it we simply cannot Stater for thirty years. Containing Iran or containing Qaeda there is no definition. To winning in Iraq not what was the last gun misfired."
[17:23]" Any thought go to as to Saddam's future -- bill two world to remain in power -- we will never know Julianne she probably would have been -- probably wouldn't died in his bed but what we would have had was the Sunni military in charge card which. Don't forget was what was called the she'll -- here -- mean he was what stood between Iran and the rest of the year sin and that's gone now. So we have a -- it's un bridled. So we what do we do now we go to war there Rangel in world war three which can't win. -- we deal with and in my conclusion we got to deal on the basis of tax there -- a lot of interesting suggestions and topics towards the end of the book and what we do. Going forward -- one have you comment on a few of them and by the way you mentioned the Sunnis and of course the sheer. This is almost -- them on a chance to. To have the top spot right for many many many many many years and do you mean yeah I'm not a Muslim some might come irrelevant to what Muslims want I don't care if it's Mecca. Or they co administered with the Sunni is the first time since 688 D that the Shia have really hadn't a chance of being preeminent in his long as you say America's choice is whether we attempt to hold back the sheer force around to -- At some it would -- Newington to choose for them or whether we find a way to ride the tide and that writing of the tide. Did you say involves. Coming together at least in some capacity and asking them what they want what do they want -- you know -- let me say in an exaggerated. Since they want Persian gulf. Now it's not as bad as it's announced they don't want to invade Saudi Arabia but they want writes for the Shia and the Sheehan make up 90% of the rim of the gulf they want. Security predominance in Iraq what they don't want is. I had a setting up in Iraq or Afghanistan because they suffer Qaeda as much as -- All reasonable. They want a fair settlement between. Israel and the Palestinians which will come down to resolution to four to this is the same resolution all marked. As he was leaving office let's do it's -- together West Bank we have kept -- and -- what doesn't equate is you can want a solution and -- is played to their rhetoric -- that some regular dash -- which you know very unfortunate he's there and and and that's probably the Iranians is that he is their spokesman is that Jason -- huge problem in if they're smart. Once we get to a point we have to negotiate with the pubic pushed aside."
[19:56]" based on what you -- about -- and I really appreciate -- and -- I concede a day when we will have some of these people out of the -- not throwing them you know their weight around and not -- just so ridiculously over the top and we can sit down and talk with people who -- appear -- I mean it's really difficult for anyone to think that that that this guy who comes into the -- and and and calls everybody names and -- everybody and says there -- gay people in Iran -- everybody -- it's not it's you know -- you know Jerry -- face -- yeah America and that's a problem and and it this is their fault. We always have to remember that on those planes on 9/11 or nineteen said absolutely not nineteen -- Your work as a CIA operative for so many years is giving new insight into this. Like no other -- wondering looking at where we are in the world today our intelligence services what we've gone through the mess that happened the mistakes made do we have any presents that's worth. Being it is worth talking about in the Middle East today we had to rebuild whatever we had built up. Because of the war have we lost so many assets I mean do you have a census away Howard doing the we're not doing well in in terms of because we're Warren."
[21:09]" and that makes it much more difficult to collect intelligence from your friendly with the country you go where you want talk to you want that in so in countries like ran in Iraq. In particular CIA is cut off awaits a share Baghdad you don't go out have cup team. Which -- local France in and discuss issues you go out five SUVs with black water guards very hard to get out your Iceland weren't bottles. And that makes it very difficult to no one's fault. That line for the CIA and intelligence third Clinton Syria Saudi Arabia you being there -- for many years and having contacts and so forth. But and it dries up one. When there is a shooting war I would imagine for difficult to say a major -- a -- in -- Beirut when. Bonds are flying is even more difficult when you're up against al-Qaeda because resident go to meeting that our country had often mixed people very leery about calling out -- In so be going up into the -- our region the tribal regions pakistanis can -- Pakistan is impossible. In the should -- openly the invitation of Qaeda. As such good idea can't get up there."
[22:13]" above the trilogy you wrote a book about Saudi Arabia both oil and about the issues that we have to be aware of and it's driving me nuts. Once the price -- gas seems to drop enough people. Don't get excited about it and our politicians center. Add push it aside because it's not headline stuff but there's no question that we've got a real problem -- reliance on oil. A relationship with Saudi Arabia and all the we're worried were addicted to cheap oil and his long societies are pumping you know with the you know public auto -- always look the other way but isn't Saudi Arabia the land of these madrassas where they're pumping. -- really crazy information to -- let me."
[22:51]" It backed his very sure basic fact is this fifteen saudis were recruited inside Saudi Arabia Intel is staying the saudis refused to tell us who recruited them. It sent to the United States an analyst at -- I'm a member of that plane that took off from Logan Airport right after it went right back to Saudi Arabia. It's -- looking forward the book is very provocative line I read comic of thinking well here's a guy has been there and has an interesting aspect in addition to -- are you optimistic about to the next say 34 years I mean the nuclear question all the other issues. Are you optimistic that the with a new it. It'll will be into administration at a time. You know alluded to people read this book and a couple of weeks I think kids whoever's president is going to come to terms with Iran. And I think it's a rational country which we can deal with we're -- like the price. But it the end of the day it's good news story. Okay so it's not a bunch of crazies with will -- Iran's flying around edges just waiting to satisfactorily related aspects CIA -- pretty public in wander around like mr. -- asking questions in everybody answered you know intelligence Islamic revolutionary guard -- they're all friendly. Detect that they can make that divide is you know is -- a metaphor for what could happen. Do you -- never get asked about George Clooney or when you not get asked about George Clooney and all that are you know mistaken form anymore -- on I was never seconds yeah."
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