The Spirit of the Place

[0:00]" Welcome back I and Jordan disciplines to be with you through the night talking to folks all over the country. And it's beautiful 50000 lots. Arena we have -- to get together and and chat and and meeting people like our next guest is a tree and I think you'll enjoy the medium -- certainly. -- only meeting in the greeting them the name Samuel -- is the name on the book. And that is the pen name for Stephen Joseph Burton and doctor -- and I guess I'm already going to ask you a typical question who would -- refer to our call you Sam to cookies to even what would you like to whom -- speaking. Spoke electors psychiatrist well I call me call me Sam because -- everybody knows me by writers and writers were all right Samuel Shem SHE and on the book that I have in my hand. The Spirit of the place which is a novel. Let's back up though and remind people that you're also the fellow who brought us something in 1978 that I found out in my research not -- yet. Is ism. On novel that has taken on a life of its own for generations generational book called. Host of god when we start there your doctor you wrote this book when you're young --"

[1:10]" I wrote it two just after I finished my training at the Beth Israel hospital here in Boston the house of god is a loosely translated version of the Beth Israel. IE and wrote it because so I figured somebody had to write about the brutality. And and comedy. Of -- year internship and aunts and that's somebody seem to be me so I wrote for my body's first and then gradually came out and now -- any ground in many lockers in many hospitals you'll find a either a worn copy your new copy oh yeah it's just. It's it's it's called the the Bible by medical students and doctors and everybody almost all over the world -- has said. Has read it in fact one of the one of the reviews of the Spirit of the place which is now thirty years later. Said this is the perfect bookend to a house of god because. The house of god boys tells you what to do in your training and this tells you how to try to come to terms with your life and menace and when you're out."

[2:11]" In the Spirit of the place we meet -- rose who is at the beginning of the novel. In Europe. Almost in an ideal place -- was -- beautiful with Italian movement and you think. -- where's this going and then we we get that something that happened -- almost everybody on the planet and that is that phone call it's you've got to come home it's important. And then we would develop this amazing. Relationship between a doctor who's who's dealing with his own identity and this. Wonderful town which is yet. Some points wonderful little points in Spain facts so I don't giving anything away plot wise but I do want to want to talk to butcher characters. And and affect his book is -- moved me moved to tears many times I think that's what what a great book and do. Doctor rose. Is he knew by any chance -- are a lot of -- doctor in doctor."

[3:04]" Well. Yeah I call this imagined autobiography. Because. I never went back to my hometown which is what's in New York. To practice medicine. But. Used a lot of the areas of my experience. To create this character and a lot of the family relationships and the town in the book is very very much like the town I grew and."

[3:31]" Interest and because the town. Is in New York as you say and it has a pretty interest in history reminded me of the scene my favorite movie it's a wonderful life would mr. potter took over to pick in the bad times and that crazy yet that joints and then hookers and all this kind of is that really going on --"

[3:47]" The talent well what I I had an amazing experience the reason I wrote this book is. I grew up in this town and I never understood. Much about the town it seemed like a pretty mean spirited broken downtown Niagara there and I got out -- never looked back. And then along came the bicentennial of the town in 1985. Started and 1785. And all of a sudden I learned it had this incredible history for instance when I grew up. I was told in school and taught in school that Colombia. This town. Was a whaling port. And that they caught whales in the river. And I took that for granted and -- that the -- wells in the Hudson river. And only about twenty years later did I think -- wait a second wails Lucy creatures and the Hudson -- freshwater river. So why -- how could that be and that's a question of course that the narrator has become activist count. And it turns out what I learned in many many years later after I left the town was set this was. Founded by Nantucket quakers after the American revolution as a safe haven for their ships. And they -- idea basically bought the land. From the Dutch and the Indians and laid it out like utopia it has it took its like Manhattan you know the streets are laid out absolutely perfectly. And it became this huge success as a whaling port. And in fact what happened is in touch of -- in the river but they they -- there ships there and sailed all around the world. And that's fascinating piece as you said about this town that I -- to explain my growing up in the town. Was that it was this boom town for many years but the quakers were very religious sorts. Found out that -- town attracted whores and gamblers. Because there was a seaport and then when oil was discovered the quakers all laughed and hunt and or cousins -- today and I grew up. You know knowing that there was something very strange about this town and in fact. IE learned that wind people when the conductor a Grand Central station. Punched a ticket its its audit if he saw it was for huts in New York or Colombia as the caller would be with a little heart beat because of the love that was there."

[6:02]" Interesting. That so many great things about the town in the people and it. But it reminded me a lot of many small towns pressed to with the doctor or any professional -- escaped he's -- a way to find his fame and fortune and he's brought back in in this particular case she's not just brought back. Out of obligation he's brought back almost. Extortion Davis has -- and and again you don't need to -- good too much detail as I want people to read it and find out in the Spirit of what's going on but let's just say that. This character's mother was a very strong willed character. As figured out a way to make sure he comes back and -- a little pennant this year and I thought that was what device had never aunt and an in the book we will find out that there is a sense of the supernatural and very lovely. That relationship that builds between mom and son are very bizarre what but doesn't it. I want to touch you little bit about doctoring and I'd love the character in the book that this -- rose you know younger late thirties guy meets meets up with again that's doctor bill -- guide carrier the old fashioned. Makes house calls Kessel -- bottle suddenly gives everybody a little placebo that gives and he's just the most beautiful character talk a little bit about the -- was there a doctor bill in your life."

[8:55]" He'll start loved the character and he he's a pivotal character in the book we're talking about the Spirit of place by Samuel -- It is a story of of a man -- his almost middle -- reaching that point -- to come to terms this past and decide what he wants to do with his life. But interesting that in this book as a doctor and I mentioned you commuting time and it. Everybody looks that and runs across the first thing that pops and -- that is eaten. Looking at that person's belly not look good in that person that eyes and it tells me some. Is that what a lot of doctors do they are they sort of do that quick cursory examiners could you kind of trained to look for things."

[9:32]" Right. You just have to if you practiced medicine for any length of time. Your your your your constant when you meet someone you're scanning uniting and doing it consciously but as you say. If somebody has little yellow deposits under their -- you know what that says about their art. If when you shake their hand I mean when when in the book win or go shakes his. Enemies former childhood enemies. -- you know he sort of reaches you you can reach into that what's called the -- the -- not elect. Non process that is the oboe. Space to see during nod jewels they're for syphilis you know that kind of thing you're always. Where you see them all when you say you're sort of looking around the outline saying what was this Mellon mars and not. So. You know one of the things that. Put this way RAI. Don't mess around with -- writing I mean I already had one job at a day job as a doctor and writing was very very important to me. So I hate when I write it has to be authentic it has to be authentic it usually takes me seven draft to get to authentic. But I don't put anything in a book consciously anyway that is an authentic in some ways so that if I'm writing about it doctor. And I'm seeing something from the darkest point of view it really has to be that an and one of the other characters. In the book we haven't talked about yet is is. Is such as a woman his age who had. Who suffered from polio when she was a kid and so you know from running from her point of view I had to draw on my experience with either. Counseling -- post polio patients who work. In this case having a dear dear friend when I was in England. The guy who's a Rhodes scholar with me who in fact was. A paraplegic and so I would I learned all about what what the world looked like from the perspective of someone who can't move --"

[11:22]" Makes a sentencing and I think tire marks the page. Somewhere that she the woman you're referring to. Lovely lovely character and memoranda. Has polio had polio and when they -- when the doctor and she. Become a a couple. There's that fear that she has that he's going to look at her differently and and then he looks at her and sees what he sees which is the but the physical result of polio and it's of the amazing scene because I'm not sure whether she's. Over that yet or whether she is what is she going to do when he looks at them withered -- in in in a very intimate way and -- amazing scene and I can imagine what's going through a doctor's head. When you love someone and you realize that person's this is there room there's a."

[12:12]" Mister yeah well that's yeah I'm glad you brought that up because this is an amazing. Quality. That this doctor hats because he says read the start of the book he happens to glimpse a woman. He -- cams to glimpse her in a protestor considering the -- hotel and he sees you know who it is yet but he sees this woman limping and so he. He immediately says what could it be and he watched a could be ABC because of the qualities out of that lip. And the issue here for and he says to himself. Why -- I now have such trouble. With deformities yes and so the question in the book and of course the reason is because his mother who has recently died which is why he's come home. Had a brain operation for benign tumor but it left turn and the left side over her face paralyzed so he sort of went. It in some ways it's like any time on love somebody your your your brought face to face with what your own. Difficulties are physically as wells emotionally with that person so that's when that's artsy for him."

[13:53]" it's very difficult to forget Santa. It really is. Well. Let me -- let me go deeper into that this your character named Henry -- And he is the guy who -- all through his -- chased and beat him -- tough -- And -- hadn't seen in four. Twenty years and when he can't win -- who comes back to town turns on Henry schooner is the pillar of the community everything's perfect -- Henry you know he does all of this community service he's going to run for congress. Everything looks good. And yet you know he when he when he meets him he says you know he sees he sees in the man the boy. That he wants and he can't get over that and Henry for some -- wants to beat. Friends with him that the issue here is a say go deeper is. And for better or worse I always. Right from a little bit of a political -- mean all of my books are set in on important political target house of god was the Nixon impeachment here 1974. 34 and this year is. An important year in that it's the Reagan Ronald Reagan."

[16:24]" A fun to be very intriguing at every time he makes an overture to you -- your hero. New hero kind of push them aside personal -- to -- he seemed so sincere but then that's another one of those many levels in the Spirit of the place. The the key. A question ahead regarding doctor has to do with. How your character. Deals with the the imminent passing of the older doctor and it is not giving anything away here to suggest that there's you know an older character whose whose health is pretty bad. Powell you or. Your doctor rose. Comforts him and stays with him I think it's a pivotal. Moment because there's inertia comes in threat and how have you been huge -- of course much better but this nurse walks in and from moment. You know he's he's going to bush he's going to -- that the old man who's basically comatose is going to shape Hambrecht and understood is why you're doing that. And for a second there. You think she's she's nurse -- she's going to but that we really she's got a whole history -- but talk a little bit if you will yeah Sam -- percent above the the moment in a doctor's life when he. Separates himself from the officialdom and the white -- thinks about my gut announced I'm in a moment your work. -- about two -- and transfer his is earthly. Place to somewhere else it's amazing moment."

[17:45]" Yeah well I I think it's okay to say that's that's when bill Starbucks cards he becomes the Ethiopian toward the end of the book he comes back to me he has stroke. That's thats okay for people who know. The question is how that's all negotiated and -- Yes that scene for me was -- you know it was like a growth -- as a person and as a doctor -- because. He feels that bill is being left alone because he's he's had a stroke nations lying there and nobody's going to see in the nurses -- going to his room and he goes into his Germany tries to help on. The appeals kind of restless. And then finally says what can I do to make contact what can I do to help this guy and he says to himself do something simple. Nothing complicated here and he says what can he do and then he realized he has a shaving brush and cream. In his bid for when he needs a shave and he's on call Teresa shaved them. As I started to think about writing that and -- actually trying to imagine doing and I realized. To shave someone else is an amazingly intimate activity and you are making the leap from being in yourself. To being really with another person and so. It's just remarkable thing where he's talking to him and shaving him just to make him comfortable. And in comes this nurse and she's -- you shouldn't be doing that doctor you know we take care that that's not your job I'll get a candy start predicament and do that. And -- You know because it's such an intimate moment he sort of finds and so he wants to just say hey c'mon cut it out on doing this. And he stops himself because and this is the virtual when you go home. Because he remembers. He's known this girls since this nurse since they were in -- great school together and he knows there history it's a horrible history. And he realizes she's an ultra. By the rules nurse because her life is that's the way she can now live her life by just being a good nurse and being professional. And so. His heart -- star. And instead of yelling at her. It's not even when he says you know released moments it's how we says that he just shifts his tone to a gentle tone. He says it's -- right you know -- just I just want to take care of him and just this once you know and she senses his tone. And says okay."

[20:00]" That's beautiful scene because it reminds us that. At people who do for others whether they're doctors or teachers. Horror -- gardeners who doesn't matter. And they do it would with a sense of on giving as well as receiving any. It's his career and -- making important decisions but it's also a human. Involved it's just such a beautiful thing and I think that. When we know that behind every Doctor. Who we're counting on our god to help us through this. There's a person with as many issues and concerns and fears and and hopes as anybody else it's -- it's a very. Lovely -- you know it it. The eighties were reducing time I'm old maybe a little younger than you know on track but the eighties register because that was the birth late seventies -- eighties of this sort of new age movement and I love a lot of the new -- stuff but a lot of it was a little. Look there and I love the fact that here's is this guy and he's madly in love at the beginning of this amazing Italian moment. Who who obviously would just sweep any African but but. She's throwing a lot of stuff adamant she goes up to chase some some German guy concedes she needs her help and it's a whole long thing and after awhile I mean you have to. You see through his eyes that. You can't just be real here decisions and reality back in in that town a Colombian a fictional."

[21:21]" My -- given what I realized actually Neiman realize this you know when you're ready you're in it you know realize that perspective right. What I what someone said to me we're talking about mister in the place. They said you know what happens in this book is. He gets himself in the position where he feels that he has to heal this town and it's kind of burdened by that feelings. Broken down this town as I call a plagued by break which were things are always breaking in. And what happens because of -- just as having to stay there which was his mother's. Demand on the conditions upper -- he has to stay there for a year in thirteen days continuously in the manor house after she died. And is that the town heals him. He came and had to try to -- town for a period of time but just sticking it out in the place you grew. With all these people with all this history of all this mission got us to use in Yiddish were armed. He winds up being healed. And that is something I never realized an -- I'm very pleased that the book I think we'll carry people through that."

[22:27]" Well particularly. -- Sam with the type of culture we have which is so transitory people get up and leave and a much suggesting we elliptical -- to mayberry but people do get up and leave and and are so. Quick to movement and shift and decide now why don't do this anymore and we forget our our roots -- not that they're all great -- Simeon as you point out and there's a lot of issue back home but. Come coming to terms of that and then realizing that. Sometimes the simplest things you say can be turned can be very healing and and I should also mention that. Com and I don't know -- personally have children you yes okay because there's a child in the book. And you know people read or -- kids portrayed in movies. -- there are often almost they're very predictable. You know as the precocious wonders acquire I want nothing in between you got a kid near man -- all over the map any as a reason for tuning he's got he's lost his daddy and and he's of it to very -- studied -- I just wanted to know you basis. Amazing ability to write this child on your own or on patients or what to wear out."

[23:35]" Then that's. I really I hadn't had children in any of my other three novels because we -- natural. And so a first at a early draft of this book and -- was based on. What I imagined a child would be in a couple of boys that I knew -- then that when I came to rewrite and put it away and and I took it back up. Several years later when it came to rewrite it and we've had kids. All of a sudden I brought new life too because I could use things that that we did you know and so I'm very pleased that that that -- that that boy came out. You know there and Karadzic its -- week."

[24:13]" but want to just ask you to talk briefly. -- play that even wrote called build W and doctor Bob that bill W for those who don't know that the founder of alcoholics anonymous. The -- book about the great depression. Called the forgotten man is gratitude to its history and a lot of times spent on -- W amazing cared that -- air and was put on when and where."

[24:36]" Well that was written when my wife Janet -- And it was. Put on here in Boston to new rep theatre in 2006. And you know -- Enron. And then we moved to talk Broadway in 2007. And it had a wonderful run there 15060. Performances over five months and it's a play about the relationship between the two guys to Wilson and Bob Smith who founded alcoholics anonymous and it there's a great dvd. That we made in the theater really terrific dvd that we do with northern like productions here in Austin you can get it from my website which is going to -- Please announce its a -- dot com. And it's being done all over the world. It's. I think the play captures. One of the most remarkable. And constant healing events and in human history which is the power. A mutual connection to -- that is and that's the same thing we're just talking about in the sport I believe for better or worse. The thing that heals people whether you're doing surgery earlier during an eight million regular medicine when you're just being a friend. It is the power of a good connection."

[25:47]" And by the way for image peaceable. In this has a lot to do with plot in the book and the connection between the mother and the son. Writing letters I thought the letters were so key because they sort of a progression of letters but it -- there -- some moments where everything. Is sort of resolve global those letters and I don't think people -- enough I don't think we write enough to our loved ones to our friends. I love writing letters and most of us just. Double with the email now but. You're right connections to all about her being into action and and really putting your hand on somebody's shoulder and -- I do for that's exactly right."

[26:27]" The only other thing -- we haven't mentioned. You know it's really it's it's funny anyway I'm known for mind. Humor in my writing in the house of god is a comic novel darkly comic announcement appeared to catch 22. And the intern -- experience was so horrible that I had I -- to write the book -- had to ride on humor. And I think I hope and you you and others judge our -- the parts of this book at least right -- humor to."

[26:55]" Well -- describing the doctor -- office. And it didn't do what his breath smells like a -- those -- here is a lot of humor I love the stories of small town folk who stand up to the man and of course there is there's a hotel with a trying to say that's and you'd describe bill hotel are based on it's called the -- the general -- that there really was a general -- to -- growers but how many times we heard of a folks saying no don't put a shopping plaza here I mean this is this is the -- of America."

[27:26]" Yeah I think this -- more than any of my other books and it's kind of -- basic stuff. You know it's about love and death and India and betrayal and and actually. What I would say it's about redemption because I happen on the kind of novelist that believes that -- because I'm a doctor believes that people can do better and they can be redeemed."