5 Year Anniversary of Iraq War

[0:00]" We're going to start this hour with professor Michael Corbin he's a professor of international relations at Boston university's military expert. Five years ago is our recollection that he told everyone to get ready for a long war. Professor Corrigan welcome tonight's segment -- right. And good evening and they -- it. Did you think when you said. Get ready for a long war that would last this long."

[0:22]" Oh easily I think will be there for another five years at a minimum and probably longer than that you know lot of people who were read Senator McCain for saying it's a hundred years it may not be that but look at we've been in Korea for fifty something years already 55 years Nelson the armistice when you do this kind of thing when you get involved in the country like that remember all of pulse thing if you break it you own it we're going to be there for awhile longer."

[0:50]" They take this back if if we came into the run up to the war. What were your feelings again for most Americans I think it's kind of bracketed between September 11 in March of 2001 in March. Nineteenth of 2003 it was almost. Just a little over a year and half Afghanistan had gone pretty well in that enter enter in that interim. What were your thoughts as we approach did you believe that that war was inevitable once the -- down."

[3:25]" Now professing your graduate which which military academy good Leo naval academy gray and so so you do not come to this with you can come to her conclusions here with sort of a pacifist philosophical agenda you're looking at a from a strategic and tactical point of view. Do you think that or motives for for going in were as crass. As the the bush family in this time in the person of of the sun. Seeking revenge against the that the family of Saddam Hussein."

[3:57]" I don't think it was revenge I think there was this sort of idea of family feud sure thing going on George Bush era. The younger the current tour was saying I can do this better than my father because there was a lot of ridicule of the senior George Bush for ending the war in 100 hours. And Colin Powell for being too political general. And every -- to a close loaded decisive victory over Iraq in the in the first gulf war but of course that wasn't simply wasn't available because nobody in the region especially the saudis in the Turks on whom we absolutely depended to win that war in 1992. Didn't want to go in there and destabilize Iraq turned into the kind of chaos that we have seen for most little most the last five years. Because that would be chaos on their borders and they didn't want because their regimes were not. As stable as we would like to think they were. So -- and -- George Bush George Herbert walker bush shut that worked out kind of fast and I think they have to I think that almost had no choice. The crowd that in Washington now and I put as much blame on Rumsfeld Cheney Wolfowitz and a few others is as much as George Bush I think he didn't have the agenda but they did and they sort of took this. Hole at a price away from him and directed him on this path they took -- away at that we -- going to do this we're gonna do quickly we're gonna do on the cheap general consecutive we're going to need about 350000 troops he was the army chief of staff and essentially got fired the first presidential economic adviser of this President Bush that this war isn't at a cost sixty billion dollars is going to cost closer to 600 billion dollars. Which by the -- is what it's costing as of today and he got fired so this administration just sort of swept. The more sober more practical considerations aside that we -- to worry about that sort of thing."

[5:52]" Well basically you've identified the so called neo cons the neo conservatives to Wolfowitz is that Cheney and Rumsfeld and obviously Rumsfeld. We've done is to disasters as secretary of defense in terms of results and what in your opinion drove this group of men Wolfowitz Cheney Rumsfeld at all two again that your phrase hell bent on war."

[6:16]" Well I think they have this in mind for a long time let me go back to 1992 in the first -- the administration George Herbert walker bush. Back in March there was an article leaked to the New York Times -- on March 15 of 1992. In which a pentagon official planning for the next five years that this is American unit polar moment we're in charge we can push our agenda in the world. We can do this I think had good things in my I don't I don't question their motives that they were evil people that they were just doing this for oil I think that's wrong to look that way. Others that we can push America's agenda to bring about a more democratic world and a better world. As long as we assert ourselves were on top. We have to hold down the Chinese we have to hold down the European Union this is beckoning be to pick up leaked and the Pentagon had to backtrack back that it didn't sound very good at least it will it's just the just the blue sky thinking but this junior official who happen to be Paul Wolfowitz. And the secretary of defense through I think clenched teeth had to sort of back away that and that's secretary defense in 92 was Dick Cheney. Six months later -- of the job because Bill Clinton sweeps away does this kind of thinking with his administration for eight years but eight years later those same people are back and they got that same agenda."

[7:36]" And wolf which now president of the World Bank."

[7:38]" Well he was until he brought his girlfriend got a girlfriend the job that statement got up there and of course Cheney is still around his."

[7:45]" Although there is what I'm saying is all very influential people not a lawyer within the Bush Administration but post bush posed -- bush 41 and up in pre bush. 404340."

[7:56]" Redirect it to eight you're clear they come back and best time. They're not going to wait till the end of an administration try to put this plan into effect and they have the heaven sent opportunity with the 9/11 attacks. Go after Afghanistan yes I think just what everybody in the Muslim world and in the Arab world. But the Muslim world more generally -- Yeah we can understand that you're getting back at somebody who got you. And there was some murmurs of protest solid but not a lot of serious the problems for the US. The thing that made it difficult for others to understand was why we then go after Iraq now yes that these people had in mind that Iraq with the power of the region that was supporting the US. And had to be dealt with. But of course is another power in the region that is turning out to be just as powerful that is Iran."

[8:46]" We go back 25 years ago this situation was reversed that Saddam Hussein was our friend as we face down. The Ayatollah and and in the year the move was in Iran."

[8:57]" Yes remember just before that we had a twin pillars Lou we'll support in the Middle East -- go back to the seventies we were depending on Israel and Iran under the Shaw. And of course we -- read that we've got a wonderful track record of misreading things that are going outside of outside of Israel in the Middle East."

[9:17]" it was it was batting average to -- the Pawtucket may be to Portland by guest is a professor Michael Korda and the Boston's newest. Mike's had a camera WBZ news radio. 18 25 in Boston this is -- signed on WBZ radio in Boston -- your post on my guest tonight professor Michael organ professor international relations at Boston University critic of the Bush Administration no doubt. But again his credentials or more than an order actually graduate the naval academy and I'm also -- look at that -- bio here which issued a look at more carefully. You're one point headed the the RTC unit the -- or TC unit at Boston University so you. Again the you have the military background to to make these criticisms where we went to break professor I sort of proposed to score card. And at this point right besides of course the 4000 deaths of so -- approaching 4000 deaths things are not going well in the last six months in Afghanistan. Pakistan is in turmoil Iraq is -- despite what the president said today and we do have some soundbites from the president that we use later on dollars down oils up gasoline prices have gone through the roof the only positive that I can see is that we have not had a repeat of the 9/11 attack on Iran on so -- or any other positive that that you see out of this."

[10:46]" I can't really see many other positives on this except we have a wonderful legacy performance by our military I'm prejudiced I have spent 25 years in the navy. I had my two tourism nominal it. And I look at these people and they're they're better military than we've ever had before our country's history that's one thing that made his politics not totally collapses ineptly managed from the top as it has been. Almost criminal incompetent some cases setting guys up without sufficient body armor without the proper kind of vehicles and so on and so forth."

[11:16]" We said remember we set -- to Vietnam that would never happen again and here it is."

[11:19]" And here is epic but our troopers are men and women over there I've done a fantastic up are doing a fantastic job and the pro open when there's enough of them over there look what they've they've done with the surge everybody's as a surge is working well the military part is working but the search. Isn't working for the political -- which is what our leadership that spoke to be taking care of the Iraqis have even begun to get together on how to form a government and are we supposed to babysit them and provide the military security. Well they argue until he --"

[11:50]" Went on -- that is that is the question of how stretches his military and all of all writer force known in the military than nine analogue to seriously talking about. Re instituting the draft this week. He's the the the front page that the coverage is it Newsweek magazine that USS soldier the group that Petraeus generations yet."

[12:10]" looked almost every senior military leaders at the same thing that this war is especially the Iraq part of it is screening our military. To a -- and I hit two tours in Vietnam but there were four years in between these people -- dedicated -- they are they're going back almost every year or year fifteen months and you can't keep that up. With the military by the way that was much smaller than the military. We have while we were in Vietnam this. This is grinding just down it's hurting morale junior mid level officers and non -- petty autism really backbone of military. Are not. Create realistic here or re upping the rates that we need to. The Soviet shortfall captains and majors in the army. In what the year 2010 that's going to be just appalling week quote not handle another significant crisis right now we don't have enough troops in Afghanistan it just a couple what we can -- Canadians that. They've got 2500 we've got 28 held later that nobody else in NATO. Put the end as many as a thousand troops -- Canadians are going to pulled out and Afghanistan besides not looking too good is -- part in -- we lose NATO because we're not running Afghanistan right that's could be a very terrible price to pay. For spending so much effort and to no good purpose but I can -- right now in Iraq."

[13:30]" Okay professor -- and let me ask a final question that I want to get a couple of calls for -- we have folks waiting in the line -- final question someone is elected president next January whoever that someone is and I don't care whether it's McCain Hillary Clinton Barack Obama they come to you and they say I want. The solution what professor cordon can I do immediately as the newly sworn in 44 president of the United States these of the Iraq into the Middle East --"

[14:02]" Immediately you can't to anything and there's no quick answer to this there's no easy answer there's no -- banter but we're going to have to start. Bring -- the neighbors and that means Syria and Iran and have to have a regional conference. Because right now the Syrians to drawing -- say you know the Americans say they're going to help you -- Iraqis but eventually they're going to go and when they go we Syria we Iran are still going to be here look at a map were on your borders."

[14:29]" I don't want to Syria of over run again as the advisor would interest serial overrun have to helping us out at this point."

[14:37]" They would have an interest in maintaining being recognized as significant players in the region I think Iran and it has the same goal. -- president Ahmadinejad of Iran has Dave gold who has Russia just recognize them as significant players Mary. And by the way it would hurt to try to get the Russians involved in this as well. We need to spread this surrounding get as many people involved we can't in other words do what we did in Vietnam we found out that militarily. We -- not paid the price militarily that our country thought was worth it. So we found -- diplomatic solution of the Vietnam war and look what's happening now just about a month ago we were boosting Vietnam to join the World Trade Organization."

[15:18]" All right that in the short term that this short term it is that in a short term was to it was a disaster the retreat for Vietnam and the re education camps and the killing fields of Cambodia all of the the concerns that -- expressed in the short term. I think you think happened that was it was a disaster and hit."

[15:36]" Yes yes. Yeah well that that's what happens when you. Going to war and you're not sure exactly what -- going to do or how it's going to work out and you happen and you don't understand the region."

[15:47]